Just was thinking using modern tech... and if we can do this surely the Loroi and Umiak should also be aware of it.
Umiak: Rather easier than the Loroi.
Weapons: A high caliber bullet and a gun is all you really need make sure you penetrate their shell.
Loroi: Just assume it is Teidar regardless how it looks so you do not have surprises.
Trap: Toxic gases or if you want to make the same Loroi unable to sanzai well with group... hallucinagenic gases
Get them high.... really high.
Weapons: Do not even get close, snipe them with a shooting weapon that won't kake a lot of noise.... perhaps the gauss gun with a muffler?
Make sure they cannot see you. Only works if human. since they would sense you otherwise even of they could not see or hear you.
Anti-Loroi and Anti-Umiak Weapons and Traps
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Re: Anti-Loroi and Anti-Umiak Weapons and Traps
1. Gases. Easily counteracted by equipping a helmet, and the hardtroopers are most likely provided with internal life-support systems.
2. Bullets. Blasters are simply superior to mass drivers. For stealthy engagements, it's better to use micro-drones.
3. Line of sight. At the combatant's tech level, this is not really an issue of personal awareness, since networking sensors would provide a much better view of the battlefield for every soldier. Especially for the Loroi with their sanzai, that cannot be jammed.
2. Bullets. Blasters are simply superior to mass drivers. For stealthy engagements, it's better to use micro-drones.
3. Line of sight. At the combatant's tech level, this is not really an issue of personal awareness, since networking sensors would provide a much better view of the battlefield for every soldier. Especially for the Loroi with their sanzai, that cannot be jammed.
My fanfic: A sword that wields itself
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G. Janssen
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Re: Anti-Loroi and Anti-Umiak Weapons and Traps
Tanks can easily be disabled by civilians. All they need to do is throw balloons filled with paint against the tanks' periscope lenses as they drive by in the streets. I see no reason why it would be less efficient against hardtroopers. I read this on Twitter.............
Re: Anti-Loroi and Anti-Umiak Weapons and Traps
I meant against an unarmed Loroi.... though some always are (looking at you Fireblade who is so confident she carries no weapons).Cthulhu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:43 pm1. Gases. Easily counteracted by equipping a helmet, and the hardtroopers are most likely provided with internal life-support systems.
2. Bullets. Blasters are simply superior to mass drivers. For stealthy engagements, it's better to use micro-drones.
3. Line of sight. At the combatant's tech level, this is not really an issue of personal awareness, since networking sensors would provide a much better view of the battlefield for every soldier. Especially for the Loroi with their sanzai, that cannot be jammed.
Nonetheless sonic weapons could crack their helmets and let gas through.
Unless Teidar and Mizol are skilled enough to use TK to keep their helmets intact.
Hard troopers would get absolutely wrecked by RPG's anyway.... if they get hit anyway.
Armor piercing bullets and anti-tank guns would wreck them.
The only way they would not is if hardtroopers are agile and fast overland... think of a tank aa maneuverable as an infantryman.
Re: Anti-Loroi and Anti-Umiak Weapons and Traps
Assuming we're talking about anti-personnel weapons and tactics here. Also important is where the fighting is taking place. In a confined space, like the interior of a ship during a boarding engagement, I think the ideal tactic for either side would be to lure the attacking force into a small area and confine them with locking doors that would be difficult even for a Teidar or hardtroop to smash or blast through.
You wouldn't want a face-to-face engagement if it were at all possible. Close quarters fighting gets really ugly and messy, really fast. In fact, the whole idea of sending people to confront a boarding party just seems ridiculous to me. Sure, it makes for some good sci-fi action scenes, but even if you have a numerical advantage, you will suffer casualties, and you will damage the ship you're trying to defend. The defender should pull all their personnel into designated "safe" rooms so their attackers must come to them. This is especially important for the Umiak (or any non-Loroi) so that they can't be mind-controlled by a Mizol, or liquefied by a Teidar berserker.
To neutralize a Loroi force, I have to think the same things that would work on humans would work against Loroi as well. Nerve gas or a powerful concussive blast. Trap a Loroi force in a small, enclosed area and drop in a few grenades or gas canisters. Presumably, the Loroi are squishy enough that the pressure wave from a grenade will kill them as easily as it would kill a human, or stun them enough to overwhelm them. Gas, well, just let it do its thing for a few minutes, vent it out, and then poke a few holes in the bodies with bullets for good measure. Looking at the Loroi armor (the stuff Fireblade, Flint and Reed have been wearing), I notice two things: the face shield does not cover the entire face, so the head is vulnerable (especially so in Fireblade's case. That isn't a "helmet", it's more of a "face mask"). Even if the visor could slide all the way down, there still seem to be enough gaps in the body armor (especially around the midriff and neck) that the pressure wave from a grenade would still cause severe, potentially lethal internal injuries.
You could place these "killboxes" outside any sensitive area of the ship that might be targeted by invaders -- the bridge/CIC, engine room, armory, etc., such that the invaders must go through them to get to their objective, or in just about any corridor. As soon as all your personnel are in the designated "safe" rooms, you arm the system. Heat or motion sensors would activate them. A simple solenoid mechanism would drop and lock the doors in place. Grenades or gas (or both) could be dropped in from a ceiling compartment automatically after the blast doors have been sealed. This process could take less than a second -- faster than anyone caught in the trap could react.
That still leaves the question of whether or not a Mizol could disarm the trap with electrokinesis. If she knew it was there, she could possibly fritz the solenoids and jam them, preventing the doors from dropping down that way. But then again, in a ship with many, many complex electrical systems and circuits, I doubt that even the best-trained Mizol could really differentiate between the circuit with the deathtrap and circuit right next to it powering the captain's coffeemaker. Take a look in the avionics bay of a military jet or helicopter and you'll see what I mean. Either way, a manually-activated mechanical or explosive backup could solve that problem in case the Mizol decides to just toast everything.
Umiak are only a slightly different story. A concussive blast may be less damaging to the Umiak because of their exoskeleton. I still think the "killbox" concept could work, though. Gas could work on the unarmored Umiak. For the hardtroops, why not just have some sliding panels open up in your killbox to reveal a few high-caliber miniguns? Just make sure your bulkheads are reinforced and hose the box down with hot lead. Come to think of it, that would work pretty well on the unarmored Umiak troops as well.
Cleanup is going to be messy, but that's what privates (or junior officers) are for, right?
If we're talking about a pitched battle in the field, I don't think you'd need any specialized weapons or tactics that haven't already been invented. A supersonic cruise missile that manages to bypass your point defenses is going to mess up anyone's day. If you're the defender, the idea is simply to create as many obstacles and hindrances between the you and the attackers as possible and do as much damage as possible while they are clearing or negotiating the obstacle course. If you are the attacker, then the idea is to try and clear those obstacles as quickly as possible while minimizing your exposure to enemy fire. This is why warfare here on Earth has evolved the way it has. Direct contact with the enemy has been reduced to almost zero. "Combatants" now sit in a control room in a different hemisphere piloting drones with a joystick. If you can't see (or sense) your enemy, you'll never see the kill shot coming.
You wouldn't want a face-to-face engagement if it were at all possible. Close quarters fighting gets really ugly and messy, really fast. In fact, the whole idea of sending people to confront a boarding party just seems ridiculous to me. Sure, it makes for some good sci-fi action scenes, but even if you have a numerical advantage, you will suffer casualties, and you will damage the ship you're trying to defend. The defender should pull all their personnel into designated "safe" rooms so their attackers must come to them. This is especially important for the Umiak (or any non-Loroi) so that they can't be mind-controlled by a Mizol, or liquefied by a Teidar berserker.
To neutralize a Loroi force, I have to think the same things that would work on humans would work against Loroi as well. Nerve gas or a powerful concussive blast. Trap a Loroi force in a small, enclosed area and drop in a few grenades or gas canisters. Presumably, the Loroi are squishy enough that the pressure wave from a grenade will kill them as easily as it would kill a human, or stun them enough to overwhelm them. Gas, well, just let it do its thing for a few minutes, vent it out, and then poke a few holes in the bodies with bullets for good measure. Looking at the Loroi armor (the stuff Fireblade, Flint and Reed have been wearing), I notice two things: the face shield does not cover the entire face, so the head is vulnerable (especially so in Fireblade's case. That isn't a "helmet", it's more of a "face mask"). Even if the visor could slide all the way down, there still seem to be enough gaps in the body armor (especially around the midriff and neck) that the pressure wave from a grenade would still cause severe, potentially lethal internal injuries.
You could place these "killboxes" outside any sensitive area of the ship that might be targeted by invaders -- the bridge/CIC, engine room, armory, etc., such that the invaders must go through them to get to their objective, or in just about any corridor. As soon as all your personnel are in the designated "safe" rooms, you arm the system. Heat or motion sensors would activate them. A simple solenoid mechanism would drop and lock the doors in place. Grenades or gas (or both) could be dropped in from a ceiling compartment automatically after the blast doors have been sealed. This process could take less than a second -- faster than anyone caught in the trap could react.
That still leaves the question of whether or not a Mizol could disarm the trap with electrokinesis. If she knew it was there, she could possibly fritz the solenoids and jam them, preventing the doors from dropping down that way. But then again, in a ship with many, many complex electrical systems and circuits, I doubt that even the best-trained Mizol could really differentiate between the circuit with the deathtrap and circuit right next to it powering the captain's coffeemaker. Take a look in the avionics bay of a military jet or helicopter and you'll see what I mean. Either way, a manually-activated mechanical or explosive backup could solve that problem in case the Mizol decides to just toast everything.
Umiak are only a slightly different story. A concussive blast may be less damaging to the Umiak because of their exoskeleton. I still think the "killbox" concept could work, though. Gas could work on the unarmored Umiak. For the hardtroops, why not just have some sliding panels open up in your killbox to reveal a few high-caliber miniguns? Just make sure your bulkheads are reinforced and hose the box down with hot lead. Come to think of it, that would work pretty well on the unarmored Umiak troops as well.
Cleanup is going to be messy, but that's what privates (or junior officers) are for, right?
If we're talking about a pitched battle in the field, I don't think you'd need any specialized weapons or tactics that haven't already been invented. A supersonic cruise missile that manages to bypass your point defenses is going to mess up anyone's day. If you're the defender, the idea is simply to create as many obstacles and hindrances between the you and the attackers as possible and do as much damage as possible while they are clearing or negotiating the obstacle course. If you are the attacker, then the idea is to try and clear those obstacles as quickly as possible while minimizing your exposure to enemy fire. This is why warfare here on Earth has evolved the way it has. Direct contact with the enemy has been reduced to almost zero. "Combatants" now sit in a control room in a different hemisphere piloting drones with a joystick. If you can't see (or sense) your enemy, you'll never see the kill shot coming.
Re: Anti-Loroi and Anti-Umiak Weapons and Traps
Interestingly, I think Arioch already has this covered.
The Loroi's strengths are in long range sniping and superior speed, so what you want heavy armored infantry to help nullify their ambush style and to some extent their telekinesis. Then, deploy in depth (either a defense in depth or multiple wave assaults depending upon who is attacking whom) to help negate their mind-control abilities, with multiple overlapping fields of overwatch fire. Don't let the Loroi isolate anyone or their dead. Keep them pinned against their gates and space stations so their manuverability is reduced. Defeat with attrition.
Oh, hey, that's what the Umiak are doing. And they seem to be winning with it too. Of course, it would be really convenient if you could develop a unit that was immune to their farseeing abilities as well... Humans would seem to make excellent special forces to mix it up with the Loroi behind their lines just to keep them off balance. Probably what Stillstorm was thinking...
Against the Umiak, well, they deploy as a large number of slow heavily armored individual units (whether infantry or fleets) so long range weapons which high accuracy and superior speed to allow classic "shoot and scoot" tactics and ambushes. Wear them down and wait for an opening, then send in the heavy forces for the decisive blow. Defeat with maneuver.
Oh, hey, that's what the Loroi are doing. And if they aren't exactly winning, then they are still putting up one hell of a fight. Think "Battle of Britain" (at least the Hollywood version), except in space. If the Umiak run out of shells before the Loroi run out of farseers, then the outcome will be the same too.
What the Loroi really need is a new ally, strategically placed to turn the Umiak's flank. Oh, hey...
The Loroi's strengths are in long range sniping and superior speed, so what you want heavy armored infantry to help nullify their ambush style and to some extent their telekinesis. Then, deploy in depth (either a defense in depth or multiple wave assaults depending upon who is attacking whom) to help negate their mind-control abilities, with multiple overlapping fields of overwatch fire. Don't let the Loroi isolate anyone or their dead. Keep them pinned against their gates and space stations so their manuverability is reduced. Defeat with attrition.
Oh, hey, that's what the Umiak are doing. And they seem to be winning with it too. Of course, it would be really convenient if you could develop a unit that was immune to their farseeing abilities as well... Humans would seem to make excellent special forces to mix it up with the Loroi behind their lines just to keep them off balance. Probably what Stillstorm was thinking...
Against the Umiak, well, they deploy as a large number of slow heavily armored individual units (whether infantry or fleets) so long range weapons which high accuracy and superior speed to allow classic "shoot and scoot" tactics and ambushes. Wear them down and wait for an opening, then send in the heavy forces for the decisive blow. Defeat with maneuver.
Oh, hey, that's what the Loroi are doing. And if they aren't exactly winning, then they are still putting up one hell of a fight. Think "Battle of Britain" (at least the Hollywood version), except in space. If the Umiak run out of shells before the Loroi run out of farseers, then the outcome will be the same too.
What the Loroi really need is a new ally, strategically placed to turn the Umiak's flank. Oh, hey...
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DevilDalek
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Re: Anti-Loroi and Anti-Umiak Weapons and Traps
Is there a list somewhere of Loroi powers?
Re: Anti-Loroi and Anti-Umiak Weapons and Traps
Yup. There are some pretty in-depth essays covering everything Loroi on the Insider page.
https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/forum_telepathy.html
https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/foru ... nesis.html
Re: Anti-Loroi and Anti-Umiak Weapons and Traps
Lets just point out that we are dealing with aliens with alien body chemestry here. It is possible that an area could be flooded with a poison gas that are harmless to humans.