If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?

[Keklas Rekobah]

After giving this subject more thought . . . "Outsider: The Second Seige of Seren"

Synopsis: The bugs have retaken Seren in a surprise gate-buster attack.  While the Loroi fleet engages the enemy fleet overhead, ground forces are dispatched to eliminate Umiak soldiers and hardtroops.  The player may choose up to three Loroi members for a special assault squad.  This squad receives assignments directly from Torrai Lashret Dellasoni (Stillstorm), captain of Tempest and commander of Strike Group 51.

Scope: The game is played as a first-person shooter, with up to 3 additional semi-autonomous squad members who are either given general orders (Attack, defend, flank, et cetera) or can be taken over and directed by the player.

The player may choose squad members from the following castes:

Doranzer:
• Advantages: Medical knowledge, surgical skills.
• Disadvantages: Weak combat skills.

Gallen:
• Advantages: Rapid field repairs, structural appraisal.
• Disadvantages: Somewhat less than diplomatic.

Listel:
• Advantages: Total recall, tactical analysis, science knowledge.
• Disadvantages: Easily distracted, may relate too much information.

Mizol:
• Advantages: Diplomacy, languages, mind control.
• Disadvantages: Ulterior motives / Secret orders.

Soroin:
• Advantages: Greater discipline among the other castes.
• Disadvantages: May "second-guess" and override the player's choices.

Teidar:
• Advantages: Telekinetic and telepathic assaults.
• Disadvantages: Increasing risk of mental "burnout" with each assault.

Tenoin:
• Advantages: Navigation, piloting, superior reflexes.
• Disadvantages: May not accept player's observations and suggestions.

Notes:
• Every squad member has melee skills (i.e., blaster, grenade, HTH, et cetera), some stronger than others.
• Only one of each caste per squad is allowed.
• The Torrai caste is not available to ground squads.


As others have said, this game would be similar in scope and effect to the Mass Effect series.  Not being a game designer, and having been away from video games for over a decade, my creativity in the genre may not be the best.

[Cthulhu]

Perrein? You mean Seren, right?

Also, what's that with second-guessing and "overriding" by the Soroin? There's an established chain of command and orders are carried out. Period. On the other hand, squad leaders can and must interpret and adapt them properly, but that's still not second-guessing.

[Keklas Rekobah]

I said "Seren" in the title, and brain-farted in the synopsis.  I corrected the error, plus a few punctuation errors and breaks in verb tense.

All better now.

YOU try coming up with drawbacks for each caste of those amazonian space-elves!  I had to go through all 214 episodes AND the "Extras" files just to come up with as much as I did.

[Cthulhu]

YOU try coming up with drawbacks for each caste of those amazonian space-elves!  I had to go through all 214 episodes AND the "Extras" files just to come up with as much as I did.

But I just followed the setting of your campaign and second-guessed the rules?

The Soroin are the catch-all caste, going as far as counselors (Soroin Tiret), but the ones for ground or shipboard action should be specifically trained for this task. Therefore, they would be the standard and most versatile troops.

In order to balance the various choices, games sometimes employ a point system, where each squad member costs a certain amount corresponding to their "value" so to speak. For example, a very powerful and high-ranking Teidar like Fireblade should cost a lot, while a sacrificial Soroin Paset would be free.

[Keklas Rekobah]

This is within the context of a video game, not a webcomic.  Simplification is essential -- the game mechanics MUST be as transparent as possible.

For example, in my Traveller RPG setting (GURPS or Classic), Loroi characters have a minimum PSI score of 12 (C).  Careers are renamed "Castes", and each caste has its own unique skillset, especially when EDU exceeds 7.  Most of the skills are drawn from the Traveller ruleset, and some are adapted from what Arioch has posted on this website.  Overall, it is a matter of adapting Arioch's work to the Traveller system (not the other way around) -- even GURPS Traveller requires some thought on how to implement certain skills, perks, and quirks for the sake of game balance.

If players have to wade through a 300-page manual, or play through 12+ hours of a rookie-level game just to get an idea of how to do what needs to be done, it just is not worth the effort.  I want people to sit down, roll some dice (or click a few checkboxes), and be ready to run as quickly as possible.

My goal is to have fun, not to duplicate every weld and rivet of Arioch's efforts.  Your goals may differ.

[bunnyboy]

Spacetaker concept art
Fireblade, the Silent Loroi

The others would be
Beryl, the Curious Loroi
Tempo, the Diplomatic Loroi
Talon & Spiral, the Double Loroi
...
Not sure what kind of puzzle would work at best.
Just avoiding umiaks on trapped maze doesnt seem right for the setting.

[Cthulhu]

This is within the context of a video game, not a webcomic.  Simplification is essential -- the game mechanics MUST be as transparent as possible.

That is a good ideal, which is, sadly, not something that is followed very often. Some MMOs are as complicated as a full-time job.

Anyway, for an action-RPG, you don't need anything complicated. The Soroin would be the standard troops, average in most regards, but have the highest versatility, especially if promoted or/and "upgraded". Specialists, on the other hand, are geared towards a specific task, and will fare worse in other regards. Or, in the case of high-level expert units, they will be especially effective in everything, but equally expensive.

Besides, settings and rules must be adjusted against game balance. Fireblade is too OP. NERF PLZ.

[Keklas Rekobah]

Since most FPS games I have played seem to be variations on a common theme, simply replacing the character graphics with Loroi (shooters) and Umiak (targets) would seem to suffice.  Replacing rifles and SMGs with Loroi blasters would also work.  Then the underlying engines would not need much tweaking to make an Outsider-themed FPS.

But a new game from the bottom up?  Gach, make it a Mass Effect type action-adventure in a World of Warcraft-like environment with characters from the Soiaverse.  THAT would inspire me to lay out the Benjis for some long-term entertainment!

[Bamax]

If players have to wade through a 300-page manual, or play through 12+ hours of a rookie-level game just to get an idea of how to do what needs to be done, it just is not worth the effort.  I want people to sit down, roll some dice (or click a few checkboxes), and be ready to run as quickly as possible.

My goal is to have fun, not to duplicate every weld and rivet of Arioch's efforts.  Your goals may differ.

Hahaha.... you just described the Elite family of space games (by Braben originally).

Even the modern spin-off of the original that is free is virtually unplayable without OXP's to make the game easier.

You should not have to WORK to play a game for hours on end.

[Demarquis]

"You should not have to WORK to play a game for hours on end."

I could tell you some stories about tabletop wargames that would turn your hair grey... from old age, after reading the whole damn manual.

[Keklas Rekobah]

I could tell you some stories about tabletop wargames that would turn your hair grey... from old age, after reading the whole damn manual.

Been there, on both sides of the referee's screen.  AD&D and Traveller (and possibly others) have suffered from "Rules Bloat" to the point where owning the latest edition rules of either game is (to me) a mere bragging point, and only the 1st or 2nd Edition rules are ever in play.

[Demarquis]

My sweet summer child, D&D has nothing, nothing on certain games from Simulations Publications: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Campa ... 20complete

[Keklas Rekobah]

("Summer Child"?  I was born in 1957.)

I had something similar (forgot the name) set up in the basement of my first house back in the early '80s.  It took almost a full day just to pre-stage the Maginot line!

[gaerzi]

Scope: The game is played as a first-person shooter, with up to 3 additional semi-autonomous squad members who are either given general orders (Attack, defend, flank, et cetera) or can be taken over and directed by the player.

[snip]

As others have said, this game would be similar in scope and effect to the Mass Effect series.  Not being a game designer, and having been away from video games for over a decade, my creativity in the genre may not be the best.

This game couldn't be done with $15 000. It couldn't even be made with $15 000 000. For reference, Mass Effect Andromeda had a development cost of $80 000 000.

[Cthulhu]

Been there, on both sides of the referee's screen.  AD&D and Traveller (and possibly others) have suffered from "Rules Bloat" to the point where owning the latest edition rules of either game is (to me) a mere bragging point, and only the 1st or 2nd Edition rules are ever in play.

I've Dm-ed D&D for the 3.5 rulebook back in college, and it was already complicated enough. Now, the 5th edition, with all that new stuff, races, classes, is almost complex enough to require a degree on its own. It's supposed to be fun, not rocket science. I think this rules bloat was, at least partially, born from the player's desire to circumvent or exploit the rules and the DMs inability to deal with that. This, however, should be the DMs responsibility, hiding behind new "paper" walls is just cowardly.
Then, you also have a certain kind of players that want a half-dragon, half-celestial character with a tragic background, so new rules were made to cater to them, too.

This game couldn't be done with $15 000. It couldn't even be made with $15 000 000. For reference, Mass Effect Andromeda had a development cost of $80 000 000.

That's why I proposed to crowdfund a total conversion mod right at the beginning. With that kind of budget, this would be the only viable solution. Although, I don't know why bamax brought up that sum in the first place, does he have so much spare money to spend?

[Bamax]

Because that is about how much (a bit more) Bamax paid for his first car.


So I learned in short that making a good game without using outdated tech is far more expensive than a car!

[gaerzi]

Hahaha.... you just described the Elite family of space games (by Braben originally).

Even the modern spin-off of the original that is free is virtually unplayable without OXP's to make the game easier.

I played a lot of Frontier: Elite II and Frontier: First Encounters back in the days and I do not remember them being particularly complex games. The interface was pretty simple. Certainly nothing as in-depth as a contemporary flight sim.

Where the game could be technically hard, it was if you did manual piloting for things like landing on a planet or docking with a space station. But you had an autopilot for this kind of things, so that's only a challenge if you wanted to have one. Only real reason for that was if you wanted to be a space miner, dropping mining drones on planets (or even asteroids but their pitiful gravity wells made it a lot harder to land on them) so as to come back later when they're full of minerals. (Given how this was probably the slowest and boringest way to make money in the game, it was only worth doing it once for the bragging rights that you managed to do it.)

I've Dm-ed D&D for the 3.5 rulebook back in college, and it was already complicated enough. Now, the 5th edition, with all that new stuff, races, classes, is almost complex enough to require a degree on its own. It's supposed to be fun, not rocket science. I think this rules bloat was, at least partially, born from the player's desire to circumvent or exploit the rules and the DMs inability to deal with that. This, however, should be the DMs responsibility, hiding behind new "paper" walls is just cowardly.
Then, you also have a certain kind of players that want a half-dragon, half-celestial character with a tragic background, so new rules were made to cater to them, too.

The problem with D&D is that while the rules themselves are relatively simple (usually), there's just a ton of them. Every class has its own rules. Every spell has its own rules. Let's give everyone a selection of feats they can take, and every feat has its own rules. This creates a combinatorial explosion of possibilities, which is what allows to create some completely broken builds because you use disparate rule elements together to create a monster that was never intended.

So I learned in short that making a good game without using outdated tech is far more expensive than a car!

It is a full-time job for several people for several months. Of course it'll be more expensive than something that was mass-produced mostly by robots!

[Cthulhu]

The problem with D&D is that while the rules themselves are relatively simple (usually), there's just a ton of them. Every class has its own rules. Every spell has its own rules. Let's give everyone a selection of feats they can take, and every feat has its own rules. This creates a combinatorial explosion of possibilities, which is what allows to create some completely broken builds because you use disparate rule elements together to create a monster that was never intended.

In my experience, the min-maxxers were still somewhat reasonable, and could be argued with. As a DM I always made sure to convince them to curb their ultra-builds to more reasonable levels. After all, this goes both ways, and the DM can pit them up against a similarly broken foe for "balance" purposes.

The most problematic ones, however, were the "princes of the universe" that wanted a supermegaultraawesome sounding character, with a highly elaborate (but equally cringy) background setting. Verifying those ridiculous combinations carried the risk of death by a cringe overload. For the most part, they not only refused to roll a more reasonable character, the problems also continued into the campaign, since they caused all kinds of trouble with their weird RP.

The 5th edition rulebook has increased the number of combinations even further, I pity the modern DMs. Some time ago, I wanted to join a group in order to experience the 5th edition directly. Unfortunately, this was at the height of the "tiefling craze".

It is a full-time job for several people for several months. Of course it'll be more expensive than something that was mass-produced mostly by robots!

Months? Years! Or, in the case of Star Citizen, centuries...

[Kage Sama]

Gah, between insane character creation rules and incredibly detailed (re:slow) combat, nothing beat Chivalry and Sorcery 1st ed.

I swear, one round of combat could take up to 5 minutes per character at a minimum (where are you aiming your lance, how are you tilting your shield, how fast are you pushing your steed, Oh, look, your opponent's shield is tilted this way, so your attack bounces off harmlessly . . . )

Again, I say, "gah!"

[Keklas Rekobah]

The original Traveller rules allowed for a character to die during creation.  This was later modified to a Referee's Option of giving the character a serious injury and dismissal from the character's career.