Substitute Alex For Other Well Known Scifi Human Characters... Do They Do Better Or Worse?

[Keklas Rekobah]

Toss The Doctor in, and the whole war will he over in a few days at most. I'd love to see him talk his way through every portion if Tempest, especially when he confronts Stillstorm.

Depends on WHICH doctor...

Doctor Zachary Smith, perhaps?


Oh, the pain ... the pain ...

[StarCruiser]

Have no fear! Smith is here! Moments later...he's spaced...

[Quickdraw101]

Toss The Doctor in, and the whole war will he over in a few days at most. I'd love to see him talk his way through every portion if Tempest, especially when he confronts Stillstorm.

Depends on WHICH doctor.

The one I knew best was the tenth, Tennant, though I also enjoyed Eccelton (mispelled I know).

Stillstorm would laugh if the ninth doctor said this to the Umiak though... even the Umiak might laugh, because they are not Dalek's who fear or know the Doctor...






The doctir relies a lot on his knowledge, reputation, and gadgets... take one away and he will have a hard and likely humbling experience.

Yeah, I'm more familiar with the 10th than anyone else. I think he'd do pretty well, if he gets a run down of the situation.

[Bamax]

Toss The Doctor in, and the whole war will he over in a few days at most. I'd love to see him talk his way through every portion if Tempest, especially when he confronts Stillstorm.

Depends on WHICH doctor.

The one I knew best was the tenth, Tennant, though I also enjoyed Eccelton (mispelled I know).

Stillstorm would laugh if the ninth doctor said this to the Umiak though... even the Umiak might laugh, because they are not Dalek's who fear or know the Doctor...






The doctir relies a lot on his knowledge, reputation, and gadgets... take one away and he will have a hard and likely humbling experience.

Yeah, I'm more familiar with the 10th than anyone else. I think he'd do pretty well, if he gets a run down of the situation.

He won't have a rundown... he will go in blind initially, and to make it even remotely fair he cannot have a totally workingTardis capable of time travel.... but at least it helps him translate anything.

Still... he has his break any lock sonic screw driver which can blow up stuff too (like killer christmas trees).
And a handy one time use time lord weapon that can vaporize a whole group of nearby enemies that auto seeks targets (used it on cybermen once).

So all in all, he is more equipped than all but uber Loroi like Teidar and Mizol.

He also has some mild telepathic resistance, and the ability to link up with telepathic or psonic networks or machines with psonic ability (arcangel network he used against the master in a two parter).

[Keklas Rekobah]

IMHO, the resolution of a plot should not involve super-powered characters stepping in and setting things right, even when those characters are the main protagonists.

Instead, a good story involves ordinary people encountering and overcoming seemingly insurmountable obstacles by adapting to the situation and attaining victory from within the system.

Thus, I see Alex as an “Everyman” in a situation for which he is almost completely unprepared — first contact with an alien civilization, the citizens of which could reduce him to a mindless zombie or a lifeless corpse with a mere thought. All that Alex has going for him is his natural (?) telepathic block and a hidden ally (?) in his pocket. Replacing Alex with a “superhero” would change the story into something like “Earth Conquers All” instead of “Gulliver in Space” (to use some loosely descriptive terms).

I like the way Arioch has laid the story-so-far out for us while holding back on specific details that might spoil the story for us. I have no complaints there.

[Snoofman]

IMHO, the resolution of a plot should not involve super-powered characters stepping in and setting things right, even when those characters are the main protagonists.

Instead, a good story involves ordinary people encountering and overcoming seemingly insurmountable obstacles by adapting to the situation and attaining victory from within the system.

Thus, I see Alex as an “Everyman” in a situation for which he is almost completely unprepared — first contact with an alien civilization, the citizens of which could reduce him to a mindless zombie or a lifeless corpse with a mere thought. All that Alex has going for him is his natural (?) telepathic block and a hidden ally (?) in his pocket. Replacing Alex with a “superhero” would change the story into something like “Earth Conquers All” instead of “Gulliver in Space” (to use some loosely descriptive terms).

I like the way Arioch has laid the story-so-far out for us while holding back on specific details that might spoil the story for us. I have no complaints there.

Here here!

[Krulle]

Here here!

Did you mean
"Hear! Hear!"
?

Because "This place! This place!" sounds weird.


Otherwise: this is just an exercise in "what if", and not in how it should be.

[Keklas Rekobah]

[...] this is just an exercise in "what if", and not in how it should be.

Oh, I get that.  It is just that in my opinion (which admittedly does not count for much) hypothetically replacing Alex with someone of similar stature avoids an inevitable deus ex machina situation of having an over-powered "Harry Lou" save the day.

In this context, someone like Daniel Jackson (pre-ascendancy) or Samantha Carter (pre-Jolinar) may be more appropriate replacements for Alex than Flinx and Pip (post-Tar-Aiym Krang) or Paul Atreides (before the fall of House Atreides).

Anyway, that is just my opinion and not an armchair mandate.

[Bamax]

[...] this is just an exercise in "what if", and not in how it should be.

Oh, I get that.  It is just that in my opinion (which admittedly does not count for much) hypothetically replacing Alex with someone of similar stature avoids an inevitable deus ex machina situation of having an over-powered "Harry Lou" save the day.

In this context, someone like Daniel Jackson (pre-ascendancy) or Samantha Carter (pre-Jolinar) may be more appropriate replacements for Alex than Flinx and Pip (post-Tar-Aiym Krang) or Paul Atreides (before the fall of House Atreides).

Anyway, that is just my opinion and not an armchair mandate.

Nothing wrong with opinions.

Yet I think James T Kirk (Shatner NOT PINE) is arguably less OP since he has more wits and charm than raw uber brains like Carter who figured out how to. Blow up a star

[Keklas Rekobah]

"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water ... Next up, parting the Red Sea!" -- Lt. Col. Samantha Carter

[kyosanim]

Yet I think James T Kirk (Shatner NOT PINE) is arguably less OP since he has more wits and charm than raw uber brains like Carter who figured out how to. Blow up a star

That is nothing compared with Kirk routinely outsmarting God like beings or A.I,'s like V'ger who before coming to Earth, assimilated entire Galaxies. More scientific knowledge doesn't necessary means, being smarter.

[Keklas Rekobah]

"Curiouser and curiouser", said  Alice  Alex...

While the Soiaverse is exceedingly more logical than Wonderland, I can imagine Alice (or her male equivalent) coping with the Loroi in much the same way as our Alex is doing.

[Snoofman]

Dan Simmons' the Shrike. The Lord of Pain strikes the fear of God in any man... or loroi. And the Shrike would certainly send the Historian(s) in a spin.

[Demarquis]

Ender Wiggin. Talk about an everyman who learns to overcome tremendous odds, both on a personal level and in a larger strategic sense. The situation in "Outsider" is not that different from that faced by Ender in his book: thrust against his will into a militarized environment surrounded by people who either feel little loyalty to him (at first) or who are actively hostile. Some of the characters even serve similar roles: Tempo as the Major Anderson character, and Firestoem as Colonel Graff, Beyrl as Petra, maybe some others.

Ender would end up running the war for the Loroi, exterminating the Umiak, and hating himself for all the lives lost in the process.

[Bamax]

Ender Wiggin. Talk about an everyman who learns to overcome tremendous odds, both on a personal level and in a larger strategic sense. The situation in "Outsider" is not that different from that faced by Ender in his book: thrust against his will into a militarized environment surrounded by people who either feel little loyalty to him (at first) or who are actively hostile. Some of the characters even serve similar roles: Tempo as the Major Anderson character, and Firestoem as Colonel Graff, Beyrl as Petra, maybe some others.

Ender would end up running the war for the Loroi, exterminating the Umiak, and hating himself for all the lives lost in the process.

I doubt by sheer brillant tactics Ender could defeat the Umiak.

The Umiak are have several worlds under their reign and vassal thralls as well, nor or they above diplomacy or lying.


Stillstorm is arguably like Ender for kill count if nothing else.

Either you somehow negotiate peace, or find a super weakness to exploit, or a superweapon.

This is a lot like Batman vs Superman.

Unless you can cheat by using a weakness (which the Loroi have only being able to stalemate with till now), you are not overpowring a larger and more powerful force than your own.

[Demarquis]

Well, if you accept the way that warfare works in the Ender universe, and Ender brings that way with him into the Outsider universe, then yes, cannonically, he absolutely can defeat a technologically superior, by an order of magnitude numerically larger space empire by sheer strategic brilliance (whether or not warfare actually works that way in real life is a completely separate issue).

Of course, first he has to raise himself up the military chain of command from a status below that of the lowest ranking (a child, in the original story, an alien male in this one), until he is in control of all deployed forces, but he did that too.

He's almost tailor made for this purpose.

[Bamax]

Well, if you accept the way that warfare works in the Ender universe, and Ender brings that way with him into the Outsider universe, then yes, cannonically, he absolutely can defeat a technologically superior, by an order of magnitude numerically larger space empire by sheer strategic brilliance (whether or not warfare actually works that way in real life is a completely separate issue).

Of course, first he has to raise himself up the military chain of command from a status below that of the lowest ranking (a child, in the original story, an alien male in this one), until he is in control of all deployed forces, but he did that too.

He's almost tailor made for this purpose.

I really doubt it.

Outsider tech is more powerful than most things in Ender's Game with the superweapon Ender uses being an exception.

I have only seen clips from the movie, and the Umiak are a lot better at tactics and strategy than the Ender's bugs are.

The Umiak are not a hive mind for one, so you cannot just kill the a mothership and make a whole fleet drop out the sky dead.

And unlike the bugs I saw in Ender,'s game, they love spamming volley's of missiles at high g.

Their missiles are so fast they fo not need railguns since they have like 40-60g missiles.

And as sldo have 100g and higher as as anti-missiles


Basically Outsider as a setting is powerful enough to wreck most all of the Babylon 5 races, with only the Shadows and Vorlons giving them the worst trouble.

I
.

[Demarquis]

You really need to read the book--it's significantly better than the movie (although the movie wasn't necessarily bad). In the book you see Ender's progression as a strategic thinker evolve from his own point of view. The fact that the enemy had a hive mind, or that there was a super-weapon available were convenient, but by the time those became important factors Ender had already overcome an entire series of increasingly difficult tactical and operational challenges. The computer game that the battleschool made available to the cadets is a good example--no hive minds or super-weapons were available there. Ender's approach to testing and overcoming an opponent is basically independent of the technology involved, or the specific tactical circumstances. So I find it highly plausible (assuming that strategic level combat works the same way in the Outsider universe, of course) that Ender would simply adapt to the new conditions relatively quickly and find other weaknesses to exploit.

There are no perfect species.

[Bamax]

You really need to read the book--it's significantly better than the movie (although the movie wasn't necessarily bad). In the book you see Ender's progression as a strategic thinker evolve from his own point of view. The fact that the enemy had a hive mind, or that there was a super-weapon available were convenient, but by the time those became important factors Ender had already overcome an entire series of increasingly difficult tactical and operational challenges. The computer game that the battleschool made available to the cadets is a good example--no hive minds or super-weapons were available there. Ender's approach to testing and overcoming an opponent is basically independent of the technology involved, or the specific tactical circumstances. So I find it highly plausible (assuming that strategic level combat works the same way in the Outsider universe, of course) that Ender would simply adapt to the new conditions relatively quickly and find other weaknesses to exploit.

There are no perfect species.

From the movie it would seem that Ender's go to tactic is to look for weak points and exploit them.

The problem with trying that against the Umiak is...

1. They are not fools. They actually do net rely on zerg rushing 24/7. They even use probing attacks... which are attack and run away.... just to see how you will respond.

2. If Ender replaced Alex he only has a limited amount of time to take down the Umiak before they steamroll the. Loroi anyway.

Basically... barring some major weakness the Loroi find on the Umiak or something else that makes them prefer peace to fighting, Ender has no chance.

Without some major exploit weakness the war will be over before Ender even has a chance to tackle the Umiak.

He simply does not have the time.


Fortunately for our comic heroes, they by a series of unfortunate events seem poised to find a Umiak weakness to exploit.


Which is why Tempo was likely smiling near the Umiak as she mind wiped him.

'We can stop the Umiak advance right here if we pkay iur cards right... maybe even end the war... I will get a massive promotion if I survive... yippeee!'

[Demarquis]

1) Are you suggesting that the Umiak have no weaknesses that an Ender character could exploit?

2) Why do you think that the Umiak are "steamrolling" the Loroi outside of the frontier area? In Enders Game, humanity was down to our home system, the aliens had many systems, and an invasion was considered immanent. That actually seems more challenging than the situation that currently confronts our protagonists.