Stillstorm laughed...

[Luge]

I don't think Stillstorm is just referring to Kliktik's facial features.

She said "odd patterns" and then comments that its displays a certain degree of higher intelligence, tactical understanding and even self-preservation that its comrades do not.

This Umiak clearly doesn't think completely as the hive-mind does... And its strange behavior has been observed on more than one occasion.

This actually brings up more questions than it answers. If Stillstorm has seen it, the Umiak must have as well. How is it that Kliktik can get away with such "non-Umiak" behavior? Is Kliktik a sort of Umiak maverick, as Stillstorm is?

L.

[TrashMan]

"odd" doesn't mean non-umiak. It means odd to Stillstorm. And in what context? Odd tactical patterns? Odd shell marking patterns? Odd speach patterns? she didn't specify.

Hence why why cannot really say that Kliktik is odd for an umiak, as we have nothing to compare him to.

[Rosen_Ritter_1]

Stillstorm seems to be saying that this Umiak commander is odd in that in situations where he loses the tactical advantage, he tends to fall back while other Umiak commanders have a tendency to fight rather suicidally to the end.

[Luge]

"odd" doesn't mean non-umiak. It means odd to Stillstorm. And in what context? Odd tactical patterns? Odd shell marking patterns? Odd speach patterns? she didn't specify.

Hence why why cannot really say that Kliktik is odd for an umiak, as we have nothing to compare him to.

I would think that of all the Loroi, Stillstorm is absolutely the expert on the normal behaviour of Umiak fleet commanders, and knows when one behaves oddly. Notice also that the words withdraw and empty husks are highlighted, showing that the emphasis in her speach is on these words, and that what she means by odd.

L.

[Offset]

First post greetings to all. Arioch love the story.

I'd like to point out that the Umiak did gain something by divulging the information that they may have a farsensing jammer. Whether its true or not Stillstorm will report it back to HQ and the Loroi will have to assume that it is true and respond accordingly. This will force them to blanket more forces out to act as a screen to detect enemy units that are attempting to bypass the front lines, robbing those units from systems that are actively engaged against the Umiak. This will also mean that the Loroi must setup additional supply and communication lines draining even more resources that could have gone to actively fighting. This will also allow them to gain through observation a better estimate of the total Loroi strength and resources.

The fact that the Umiak commander didn't have to and indeed shouldn't have revealed such information just reinforces that possiblity that it is true. Even if the Loroi continue to detect the Umiak the argument could be made that the Umiak are allowing the Loroi to detect certain fleets to attempt to pull scouts away and open a hole in the front, thus keeping the resource drain ongoing far longer. So the Umiak did potentially gain quite a bit from a simple sentence.

[bunnyboy]

"odd" doesn't mean non-umiak. It means odd to Stillstorm. And in what context? Odd tactical patterns? Odd shell marking patterns? Odd speach patterns? she didn't specify.

Considering that this is first contact between loroi and umiak in long time, it is sure that she don't mean speech or appearance.
But he is different enough from other umiaks to get recognized.

He may be disillusioned of umiak fanatism, tired of war, tactical genius or just coward. It would be also interesting to know if umiak KGB had put mark on this guy.

[Mjolnir]

As it stands, he failed to get the Bell. (but the chances of getting it were always practicly zero)
He failed to intimidate the Loroi
He failed to gain any info...but the Loroi did get much info.

This Loroi task group gained some information that's already either painfully well known deeper in Loroi space, or will be so before these Loroi can return. The Umiak lost nothing by giving that information, as by the time even a fast courier returns to Loroi space it'll be old news, and apart from the gamble of possibly gaining the "treasure" that Stillstorm is defending, they might have caused major damage to the morale of this task group.

[Karst45]

That Stillstorm recognizes him hardly make him unique...

your focusing on the wrong part of the text, HE WIDREW from a battle were every other umiak just keep fighting until no one was left.

We seen Fireblade, Beryl, Temp and Stillstorm from the Loroi... we only seen one Umiak so far. So what is out of ordinary/uncommon here?

i tought She referring about the ship pattern in answer to Alex question (otherwise she wouldn't say it but "think" it)

[Luge]

i tought She referring about the ship pattern in answer to Alex question (otherwise she wouldn't say it but "think" it)

That's a good way to recognise it, too. According to Insider, the Umiak don't change ships often, if at all. I believe it was stated that starship crews are often also the same crews that fabricated the vessel in the shipyards.

Kliktik's flagship is probably pretty recognisable, either visually or electronically.

L.

[NOMAD]

i tought She referring about the ship pattern in answer to Alex question (otherwise she wouldn't say it but "think" it)

That's a good way to recognise it, too. According to Insider, the Umiak don't change ships often, if at all. I believe it was stated that starship crews are often also the same crews that fabricated the vessel in the shipyards.

Kliktik's flagship is probably pretty recognisable, either visually or electronically.

L.

Well that might be true, given how Kilk-27 has been able to survive for this long
yet I found this on the insider guide

It was generally assumed by the Loroi at the time that these oversized superheavies were being used as flagships for Umiak commanders, but it is now believed that this was probably incorrect. Experience has since demonstrated that most Umiak commanders prefer less conspicuous smaller cruisers as flag vessels from insider superheavy section

but then again, the panels on page 88, panel three, it might be an exception, since the ship is shown.

however, i was thinking of something, could Kilk-27 suspect that there is a survivor on broad the Tempest. The reason being:

A) The Umiak have probably been able to get a rough vector of the bells course (from the floating wreckage), so they know that this ship primitive vessel was able to get through both of there lines so there are two obvious conclusion: I) the ship has something that's prevent detection from the loroi II) its the crew (any surviving crew)

B) Given, the Loroi have been defending/salvaging the wreck, they might have been able to get survivors on broad. or if not they might be bodies in order to study. But, then why are they still staying, even when attacked.

C) why is kilk-27 so nice, granted he might be telling the truth and loroi are facing a new assault, but he (it?) might have heard Alex initial messages and then his trade communications. Thus kilk-27 suspect a crew memeber is alaive and is playing nice in order to possible sway Alex toward the Umiak Side.

[Luge]

It would be recognisable, regardless of the size it is!

The 'Bell was holding off (hiding) from the conflict going on in the system, so wouldn't have a vector that could be extrapolated. Additionally, once it started any kind of combat action, its original course would be obscured. Unless there's some kind of vapour-trail anaysis available, of course. But we haven't seen anything about that so far.

For Stillstorm's battlegroup to be hanging around the wreckage, it's not exactly difficult to assume that they would have salvaged something from it. I doubt a single survivor would usually be of interest, however. The Loroi (and their allies) and the Umiak (and their allies) are the major powers in this part of the galaxy, so establishing first contact with a new minor race with a handful of sub-par ships isn't exactly high on anyone's agenda. Alex was treated as a prisoner of war initially, because they thought he was some sort of bio-engineered spy.

L.

[Rosen_Ritter_1]

now would it not be interesting if the torpedo was "intercepted" by a closer, undetected Umiak fleet ( coming from the protostar cloud).

That...is EXTREMELY unlikely.

For one thing, I think the Loroi fleet and the bell wreckage are WELL in excess to a light second out away from the protostar cloud. When you've got multiple second delay's between when the missle launches and when your retaliating beam reaches the area in question, it's extremely hard to make hits. And the missle doesn't have long to reach the Bell given how the task force is arrayed around it defensively.

If the Umiak were in this position to do something like that they'd probably also be in position to wipe the Loroi out in a sneak attack.

[Nemo]

A) The Umiak have probably been able to get a rough vector of the bells course (from the floating wreckage), so they know that this ship primitive vessel was able to get through both of there lines so there are two obvious conclusion: I) the ship has something that's prevent detection from the loroi II) its the crew (any surviving crew)

B) Given, the Loroi have been defending/salvaging the wreck, they might have been able to get survivors on broad. or if not they might be bodies in order to study. But, then why are they still staying, even when attacked.

C) why is kilk-27 so nice, granted he might be telling the truth and loroi are facing a new assault, but he (it?) might have heard Alex initial messages and then his trade communications. Thus kilk-27 suspect a crew memeber is alaive and is playing nice in order to possible sway Alex toward the Umiak Side.

Bolded parts are reader knowledge. You wont know tech level without examination, and he wouldn't know there is a faction to sway, much less a plenipotentiary ambassador, eves dropping. Tiky is either after the object in question because Stillstorm is or hes using it as an excuse to open dialog with the Stormwitch, or some combination thereof. The Loroi have the power to refuse any engagement that disfavors them. He has no means to acquire the vessel or destroy the Tempest's group by force. He loses nothing by volunteering information regarding the Farseers being jammed as the Loroi have already figured that one out themselves. Hes either feeding false information, gloating, being straight forward about wanting the vessel, and the Stormwitch, intact, or some combination of those. Im inclined to think hes being straight forward about wanting the object in question and probably Stillstorm as well. I agree with Stillstorm that the jamming and the Umiak tactics are just too damn convenient to be an accident, so I believe him about the jamming. Hes either in control, or thinks he is if a third party is responsible. The wild card here is the Outsider. Stillstorm has good reason to think everything the enemy just said is a ploy to get her to accept Alex and the humans from planet Dirt.

Seriously? "Hi I'm from planet, uh, dirt, and am totally NOT a super weapon of the enemy." Sure I believe him

[TrashMan]

It would be recognisable, regardless of the size it is!

The 'Bell was holding off (hiding) from the conflict going on in the system, so wouldn't have a vector that could be extrapolated.

The Bell wasn't stationary when it was destroyed...so the wreckage would continue to drift and can thus be backtracked.

Also, it shouldn't take much for the Loroi to figure out how primitive we are.

[NOMAD]

It would be recognisable, regardless of the size it is!

Yeah, it would be true, but i would think Umiak commanders who survive might get a newer ship. Now I know what I just typed, just counters the quote I gave in the post to you, but why wouldn't a successful command get a newest ships. Besides, the insider guide is for readers, if may not apply to the story right now

The 'Bell was holding off (hiding) from the conflict going on in the system, so wouldn't have a vector that could be extrapolated. Additionally, once it started any kind of combat action, its original course would be obscured. Unless there's some kind of vapour-trail analysis available, of course. But we haven't seen anything about that so far.

Bolded parts are reader knowledge. You wont know tech level without examination, and he wouldn't know there is a faction to sway, much less a plenipotentiary ambassador, eves dropping. Tiky is either after the object in question because Stillstorm is or hes using it as an excuse to open dialog with the Stormwitch, or some combination thereof.

Going to answer these two together: Correct, but the mere presence of the Bell is the Steps region, or the fact that a lone primitive scout was able to enter the steps and not be intercepted by the loroi fleets. That not a fact alone would be very interested to the Umiak.

For Stillstorm's battlegroup to be hanging around the wreckage, it's not exactly difficult to assume that they would have salvaged something from it. I doubt a single survivor would usually be of interest, however. The Loroi (and their allies) and the Umiak (and their allies) are the major powers in this part of the galaxy, so establishing first contact with a new minor race with a handful of sub-par ships isn't exactly high on anyone's agenda. Alex was treated as a prisoner of war initially, because they thought he was some sort of bio-engineered spy.

L.

Don't underestimate the value of a live Alien for Intel

[NOMAD]

now would it not be interesting if the torpedo was "intercepted" by a closer, undetected Umiak fleet ( coming from the protostar cloud).

That...is EXTREMELY unlikely.

For one thing, I think the Loroi fleet and the bell wreckage are WELL in excess to a light second out away from the protostar cloud. When you've got multiple second delay's between when the missle launches and when your retaliating beam reaches the area in question, it's extremely hard to make hits. And the missle doesn't have long to reach the Bell given how the task force is arrayed around it defensively.

If the Umiak were in this position to do something like that they'd probably also be in position to wipe the Loroi out in a sneak attack.

very true,but I was just thinking that it could happen, for dramatic effect. beside how that "tactical situation" going to happen between the loroi and Umiak forces

[bunnyboy]

And if umiaks don't have any ability to mess farsensing, they can see that loroi are different here and maybe third party is messing with them.
Then 27 definitely want everything inside Bell, and had pokerface of millenia.

[Nemo]

Going to answer these two together: Correct, but the mere presence of the Bell is the Steps region, or the fact that a lone primitive scout was able to enter the steps and not be intercepted by the loroi fleets. That not a fact alone would be very interested to the Umiak.

Bolded parts again, reader knowledge. Unless Tiky's group blew it to hell they wouldn't know it was alone, can't know its primitive, and don't know it wasn't intercepted by the Loroi. They could be interested in it precisely because they think it was seen by Farseer and intercepted, circumventing their jamming.

[NOMAD]

Going to answer these two together: Correct, but the mere presence of the Bell is the Steps region, or the fact that a lone primitive scout was able to enter the steps and not be intercepted by the loroi fleets. That not a fact alone would be very interested to the Umiak.

Bolded parts again, reader knowledge. Unless Tiky's group blew it to hell they wouldn't know it was alone, can't know its primitive, and don't know it wasn't intercepted by the Loroi.

Ok so some (or most ) of the info I'm using are reader info. its hard note not to given the amount of info we( the readers) know about. Yet I would continue to argue the kilk-27 knows more than what you are stated he knows ( or suspects) since he would know more now from the probing attack of Umiak vessels. First. the wreck is small and I'm sure the Umiak would have some sort of spectoranaylsis sensor that could tell them the composition of the ship ( the alloys and composites could be a given away to tech level) Second: The "treasure" was nearly destroyed. Now this could be explained as

A) The Umiak jammer ship, panicked and tired to kill off the bell but given the ship was so close to the bell, the crew (umiak or third party) were able to pick up the radio transmission of the Damage Control crew and continued to fire to make sure their were no witnesses (or records). But as you would stated, The umiak might be worried about how the ship was able to get close to their jammers and might have a counter to the farseer-jammer. Hence the request to hand the bell over for escape.

B) the jammer is a third party and might be observing the exchange between the fleets. (for what ever propose). Thus kilk-27 is bluffing in the hopes of getting the bell ( to find out what happened).

but i find it hard to put myself into Kilk-27 shoes ( err ex-skeleton)

They could be interested in it precisely because they think it was seen by Farseer and intercepted, circumventing their jamming.

I honestly didn't think about that, but it only works if the third party was the ones who destroyed the bell.

[Nemo]

Thats true, and I don't think it likely yet find it wholly possible. Tempo noted the tactics the Umiak have used in their engagements indicated the Umiak anticipated farseer failure, but she also noted that other task groups arrived ahead of them and were destroyed. Tiky may have been traversing under the proplyd for some measure of cover and just stumbled over the fact the Loroi are being jammed when he surprised the first intercept group. Tiky gives the impression that he doesn't know what happened to the Bell, suggests third party if both he and the Loroi are being honest. Of course, this line of reasoning requires him to be both duplicitous and honest in the same... err... breath. There are just too many variables to pin down right now, but enough foreshadowing going on that when Arioch springs whatever hes got up his sleeve its not going to come out of left field somewhere.


And just because the ship wasn't built of unobtanium doesn't mean whoever made it doesn't have unobtanium. You could say the bar is no lower than X, but thats all. And who knows, the Umiak may not even have that capacity right now. These are one off disposable warships they're riding around in, scientific analyses of any substantial kind may not be possible. Either way, its piqued his interest and thats what matters.