Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by discord »

arioch: that is also assuming a straight line of stars, or nearly so....highly unlikely, any course would be a zigzag of doom...adding 50-100% distance I'd guess. which would almost double the amount of jumps.... as i said, VERY fast.

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by GeoModder »

We can always assume they followed part of the route the Orgus took. Didn't they arrive at Esperanza in 2158 in the story?
So the initial part of the journey would be just following a road map so to speak.
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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by Karst45 »

Maybe the Terran have more efficient jumpdrive that make them jump farther. After all they didnt base this tech on Soia artifact

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

I always figured that they had the route planned in advance, based heavily on both deep space telescope data, previous scouting missions and whatever old archived star charts the Orgus might have collected through trade with various interstellar races. With a route pre-planned, they wouldn't need to waste much time scanning for new routes and could conserve velocity from previous systems to maximum effect.

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by NOMAD »

icekatze wrote:hi hi

I always figured that they had the route planned in advance, based heavily on both deep space telescope data, previous scouting missions and whatever old archived star charts the Orgus might have collected through trade with various interstellar races. With a route pre-planned, they wouldn't need to waste much time scanning for new routes and could conserve velocity from previous systems to maximum effect.
nicely stated ice, But I would expect maybe 10-20% of the time for scaning the new reigons to see if their was Loroi or Umaik ships present. Maybe just a quick active and passive scan to check things out.
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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by javcs »

Karst45 wrote:Maybe the Terran have more efficient jumpdrive that make them jump farther. After all they didnt base this tech on Soia artifact
Possibly, at least, that a possibility that I floated ages upon ages ago.
Or I seem to remember it being said that the way we do math is easier/more efficient than the method used by the main races - IIRC, they're saddled with (Soia?) base 12 math. It may be that our math edge permits better/faster jump calculations.

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by fredgiblet »

GeoModder wrote:We can always assume they followed part of the route the Orgus took. Didn't they arrive at Esperanza in 2158 in the story?
So the initial part of the journey would be just following a road map so to speak.
Except that would take us straight to the Umiak, and it's not necessarily the best route either as the Orgus were likely blazing trails. My expectation is that we asked the Orgus where the front line was and headed off in that general direction.
Karst45 wrote:Maybe the Terran have more efficient jumpdrive that make them jump farther. After all they didnt base this tech on Soia artifact
The drives don't make any real difference, human or loroi they're all capable of jumping an effectively unlimited distance, the limiting factor is knowledge of the "terrain" and finesse at aiming and picking the perfect velocity.
NOMAD wrote:nicely stated ice, But I would expect maybe 10-20% of the time for scaning the new reigons to see if their was Loroi or Umaik ships present. Maybe just a quick active and passive scan to check things out.
Any starships with active engines will be easily visible from across the system, there's no need to stop for a scan. The only real benefit to doing that is the chance that you can remain unnoticed for slightly longer, and when your entire mission is to make contact that's not much of a benefit.
javcs wrote:Possibly, at least, that a possibility that I floated ages upon ages ago.
Or I seem to remember it being said that the way we do math is easier/more efficient than the method used by the main races - IIRC, they're saddled with (Soia?) base 12 math. It may be that our math edge permits better/faster jump calculations.
Base 8, and it's all done by computers anyway. While it's certainly possible that we have computers that are closer to them than our other tech (due to our culture potentially prioritizing computerized devices to a higher degree) most likely it would make no real difference.

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by GeoModder »

fredgiblet wrote:
GeoModder wrote:We can always assume they followed part of the route the Orgus took. Didn't they arrive at Esperanza in 2158 in the story?
So the initial part of the journey would be just following a road map so to speak.
Except that would take us straight to the Umiak, and it's not necessarily the best route either as the Orgus were likely blazing trails. My expectation is that we asked the Orgus where the front line was and headed off in that general direction.
I said part of the Orgus route for a reason. The Orgus refugees came all around the Umiak Hierarchy to reach human space. I gather at least the first 50 lightyears (perhaps even a hundred) could easily be traveled (knowledge in "terrain" :P ) without the need to scout ahead for jump links.
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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by Mjolnir »

javcs wrote:Or I seem to remember it being said that the way we do math is easier/more efficient than the method used by the main races - IIRC, they're saddled with (Soia?) base 12 math. It may be that our math edge permits better/faster jump calculations.
Choice of base is largely irrelevant. The main difference is that they use a bijective numeration system, without placement zero...they must still use a character for the quantity zero, but it's not used as a placeholder in numbers. It's still a placement system, it's not certain that our system would have any major benefits...it's not like they're using tally marks or Roman numerals.

And as mentioned, the calculations are all done by computers, which will use a number system of their own. And advanced mathematics of the sort needed for figuring out how to perform those calculations tends to require little in the way of arithmetic on known quantities, it doesn't matter that much what system they use. If the Loroi don't perform as well at math as us, it's likely just due to having a culture that doesn't value it as much.

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Although the Orgus were said to be reclusive, they were at least partially connection to the local community of space-faring species. I figured that since the destination system was presumably decided by intel from the Orgus, that they must have picked up some star maps from other species. Perhaps the Orgus civilization had access to an old Soia era star map, maybe an old hard drive, maybe a guidestone like in homeworld...or at least they did until they were conquered by the Umiak.

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by fredgiblet »

I don't believe that Orgus had a specific destination, more likely they were simply traveling the path in their database to wherever it went. Their line of travel WAS based off of Soia-era intel though:
Arioch wrote:The Orgus vessel had a superior navigational database, which is what we must presume allowed the consideration of this mission (or allowed the Orgus vessel to reach human space in the first place). The Orgus were kind of like a Silk Road trade oasis, with the knowledge of ancient paths unknown to most of the local races. Which was part of the reason that the Umiak felt the Orgus should be safely a part of the Hierarchy.
Arioch wrote:
fredgiblet wrote:
Were they following such a path when they came across us?

I don't think there's any other way to plausibly explain how a shipload of refugees got here.

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Dun dun duunnnnn! I guess this is why humanity was in such a big fat hurry to make contact. If the Orgus had ancient star maps that led them to Terran space, it is semi-reasonable to assume that the Umiak may now also have possession of said maps, having just conquered the Orgus and all.

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by Karst45 »

NOMAD wrote: nicely stated ice, But I would expect maybe 10-20% of the time for scaning the new reigons to see if their was Loroi or Umaik ships present. Maybe just a quick active and passive scan to check things out.

not necessarily. If your in texas and your driving to get, let say, New York. You dont need to scan the road for your exit until your actually near the city.


They probably started scanning on the few last jump. That and am sure a spacecraft is advance enough to scan and keep a straight line at the same time

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by Mjolnir »

NOMAD wrote:nicely stated ice, But I would expect maybe 10-20% of the time for scaning the new reigons to see if their was Loroi or Umaik ships present. Maybe just a quick active and passive scan to check things out.
They have to cross the system anyway, why would they need to take additional time to look around while they do so?

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

If they didn't know where they were going, they might need to stop and perform long range scans of the neighboring stars to determine if the jump path is safe or not. There could be objects in the jump path that you might miss on a cursory scan. I recall hearing somewhere that when making a jump into uncharted territory, people like to spend at least a week looking for obstructions.

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by Mjolnir »

icekatze wrote:If they didn't know where they were going, they might need to stop and perform long range scans of the neighboring stars to determine if the jump path is safe or not. There could be objects in the jump path that you might miss on a cursory scan. I recall hearing somewhere that when making a jump into uncharted territory, people like to spend at least a week looking for obstructions.
And it generally takes about that long to transit a system. Why stop?

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

About three quarters of the transited stars are going to be Red Dwarfs, which take less than a week to transit because of their small gravitational pull, you enter the system close and you can leave closer than a star like Sol. It has been my understanding that transit time (at ~1% light speed) for a small Red Dwarf might only be a couple of days, give or take. Can't find the reference though, so I could be wrong about that.

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by NOMAD »

icekatze wrote:hi hi

About three quarters of the transited stars are going to be Red Dwarfs, which take less than a week to transit because of their small gravitational pull, you enter the system close and you can leave closer than a star like Sol. It has been my understanding that transit time (at ~1% light speed) for a small Red Dwarf might only be a couple of days, give or take. Can't find the reference though, so I could be wrong about that.
Well that is true but to fine my earlier idea ( restated below):
NOMAD wrote: nicely stated ice, But I would expect maybe 10-20% of the time for scaning the new reigons to see if their was Loroi or Umaik ships present. Maybe just a quick active and passive scan to check things out.


yes stopping might not be the best idea ( thx to Mjolnir and karst) given the scout ship moving through the system and as fred has mentioned any starship would show up as a solar flare. however, you may not have to stop at all the jump points. some will be ( as icekazte states) would be Red Dwarfs and may not have many planets, however, their could be other reason to slow down ( say every 1 out of 20 jumps). A)protostars gas clouds ( that the 51sg is currently in right now). B) large systems ( like 10+ planets) to cross in order to get to the next jump area. C) Possible mechanical failure that would stop the scout ( less likely option but you never know) anything else ?
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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by Karst45 »

NOMAD wrote:anything else ?
The urge to make friend with blue space elf chicks?

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Re: Map of the Steppes (Seren-Tinza) Front

Post by NOMAD »

Karst45 wrote:
NOMAD wrote:anything else ?
The urge to make friend with blue space elf chicks?
DANG I knew I was forgetting something

thx ice ;)
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