Galactic Scholar wrote:
I disagree, we have all the information we need. The Loroi have used genocide twice in the past and the last time with the Tithric it was hailed as a major victory. Arioch has stated in the comic that extermination is the likely fate of the loser of this war and possibly even their client states as well. I don't mean this in a mean way, but I think our conversation is sadly at an end.
Regarding the Loroi's use of genocide in the past, in the case of the Tithric:
Situated in a precarious location on the coreward end of the Steppes front, the Tithric desired to remain neutral in the war, but did not have the political unity to make neutrality work. Local systems seeking to profit from the overtures offered by both sides made independent deals, in some cases even permitting Umiak forces to pass through their territory to raid Loroi systems. The Loroi pressed the Tithric to put a stop to this, but the central government was too weak and corrupt to control its own systems, leaving the Loroi little option but to conduct interdiction raids into Tithric space. These attacks finally unified the Tithric politically and prompted the formation of a stronger central government (and a formal alliance with the Umiak), but it was too late: the Loroi under Admiral Sunfall razed the entire region. Though destroyed as a functioning nation, the Tithric are not extinct. Some refugees escaped into Umiak territory, and survivors continue to eke out an existence on the devastated Tithric worlds, mostly cut off from the interstellar community.
They carpet bombed the Tithric worlds to deny their mortal enemy a resource base and staging point for further attacks, after they aided, abetted, and then formally allied with the Umiak.
Regarding the Mannadi;
In their day, the Mannadi were bold explorers and adventurers who had built a small interstellar sphere of influence. The Mannadi respected and feared the growing power of the Loroi Empire enough not to attack them directly, and even prompted a brief alliance between the two powers. Unfortunately, the Mannadi could never be content as ordinary members of the family of nations, and their ambition led them into continuing acts of aggression against the Neridi and Pipolsid that eventually drew them into direct conflict with the Loroi. Though never a true match for the Loroi Empire and her allies, the Mannadi nation fought tenaciously and effectively through a series of three bloody and bitter wars with the Loroi, in which the Mannadi made effective use of the remote location of their territory and the severe handicap placed on Loroi forces operating so far from friendly resupply. The Mannadi also had a degree of resistance to Loroi telepathy, which represented a further challenge to the Loroi. By the end of the third war the Loroi eventually occupied the Mannadi worlds, but there was little left of Mannadi infrastructure, and almost nothing left of Loroi patience. Mannadi telepathic resistance made Loroi occupation less effective than they were accustomed to, and when Mannadi insurgents bitterly fought the occupation, the Loroi started simply wiping them out. International outrage at these actions threatened to shatter the Loroi Alliance; only the formation of the Loroi Union ended the threat of a galaxy-wide war and spared the Mannadi from extinction. The Mannadi are not spoken of in Loroi society, and they are rarely seen outside their designated territory, which is quarantined. Mannadi space is the main gateway to the territory of the Historians, but few travel this path.
Required three major wars and serious resistance to occupation after getting thrashed to trigger the beginnings of a xenocide. Stopped by politics.
Humanity is nowhere near the necessary point where genocide is even vaguely likely. The Mannadi had to set three wars in motion and bitterly resist occupation, whilst the Tithric had to be an effectively failed nation located at a strategic point for deep strikes into Loroi territory.
The fact that they've committed genocide before and thus the assumption that they will do it again has little if any weight. It would be simplicity itself to point out the numerous genocides that we ourselves have done to one another as making a case that humans would just as well genocide the Loroi when they get the chance to do so. Furthermore, in the case of the Loroi, there are six centuries of separation between those two genocides, that's two genocides in six hundred years, I daresay if you looked at human history over the last six hundred years you'd find a far higher number than just two. If we accept this line of reasoning, which we shouldn't, it's the humans, not the Loroi, that are genocidal.
If you have a more compelling reason, I'd like to hear it. I'm a fan of honest and reasoned discussion. Weak opinions, ones based on flawed assumptions, bad logic, or gut feelings without evidence, deserve to be knocked down and replaced by better ones, ones that have basis in fact, logic, truth, or reasoned assumptions that follow from available information. Positions that cannot stand to be scrutinised do not deserve to be held onto.
Your opinion doesn't follow from what you've stated. Why would the Loroi genocide humanity? What would allow them to do so? What are the costs and benefits for them in genociding humans out of existence?
I humbly suggest that you and other moderates refrain from calling those who post on your forums fools, it may have a negative affect on your future Patreon cash flow.
The only thing that being a mod affords me is a few extra buttons and having to play janitor when the spambots come out to play. People are free to spend their cash how they like, though I daresay anyone who pulls their funding because of a single post on a forum likely would never have ponied up the cash in the first place.
You will note that when I said "A fool and his money are easily parted" I used the
emoticon, which as I understand it is a near universal sign of a gentle ribbing. Given the commonality of that proverb amongst English speakers and the context of betting money, I assumed that the gentle jocularity of that statement was quite plain. Should I perhaps use more politically correct language in future?
To everyone else commenting on these posts, I'm just trying to explain my thought process to a moderator who called me a fool. That's all. I was going to get into MOO's bio weapons category and how they can be used to waste a planet's population while simultaneously leaving valuable planetary buildings intact at the cost to a hit in diplomacy but I do not see a point in that now.
Perhaps if you more clearly elucidated your thought process in a manner that could stand to even a whit of scrutiny I wouldn't regard your position ill considered. Both the Tithric and Mannadi genocides had clear and unique circumstances that brought them about. If you would but make the case for why the Loroi would genocide humanity we might actually make some progress in this discussion, whether it's revealing flawed assumptions or illogical positions on your part, or just as likely, points of view I hadn't considered or are unwittingly ignorant of on mine.
That business aside, regarding a Post-War humanity and relations with the Loroi, I'd imagine much the same as dragoongfa does, an independent but friendly nation. A few isolated human colonies might join the Union if they felt stronger ties to the Loroi over the TCA, but that would arguably be centuries down the road when the two polities have shared borders rather than loads of barren and empty space between them. There's potential for border disputes but I can't imagine them fighting a war over such without major political upheavals on one or both sides, though that is kind of implied in a Post-War Loroi union.