Re: Page 90
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:59 am
You... you disappoint me.NOMAD wrote:hehe, I really hope Dec 21, 2012 doesn't happen. Looking forward to seeing what is coming next.
You... you disappoint me.NOMAD wrote:hehe, I really hope Dec 21, 2012 doesn't happen. Looking forward to seeing what is coming next.
But nothing as yet undiscovered can make FTL and causality compatible. A complete description of the universe isn't needed for this to be determined. It doesn't matter that we don't know in detail how a particular FTL phenomenon will behave, the fact that it is FTL together with the existence of time dilation is enough. It doesn't matter that we don't have any solid descriptions of the effects of wormholes or tachyonic particles or some hypothetical hyperspace, only the end result matters.Trantor wrote:Exactly, as long as there´s no "terminal" or "concluding" world formula, there´s still a lot to discover. On (nearly) every field.Cy83r wrote:A lot of people seem to forget that science only ever says "this is good enough for now" not "this is it, forever, period".
So, in conclusion: dammit, let me think we at least have a chance at it until the hard numbers get back in the next several decades! Psychic powers have been dead and buried for almost the last two decades, don't take away my FTL drives just yet, we aren't even on Mars.
I agree 100% so far (as usually), at least for our 4-dimensional space at this time.Mjolnir wrote:...
FTL travel and time travel are the same thing.
This is what interests me though. Is there proof? Does it even matter? Would things just get totally off the wall crazy, but not actually impact anything but our perception of reality?That's a paradox. The universe doesn't like paradoxes. It's allergic to them. Trust me on this, the universe and I are on pretty good terms with each other. Usually.
Effect: This post.dfacto wrote: This is what interests me though. Is there proof? Does it even matter? Would things just get totally off the wall crazy, but not actually impact anything but our perception of reality?
I'm running on two hours of sleep here and there are spiders are crawling on my hands, but I'll try to answer this as best I can currently.Cy83r wrote:Wait wait wait! Okay, so faster-than-light equals negative time, got it. But what does negative time look like? I can't remember where, but I recall reading a book or paper that elucidated on the origin and end of the universe, big bang, big crunch, all of that. The author wrote that, assuming there was a big crunch, the math seems to say that once spatial dimensions hit zero any further compression, which the math IIRC says there is further compression, turned into positive expansion.
So, if space and time are intimately related, then would it not be properly intuitive to guess that things traveling FTL experience time at a speed increasing from a standstill? Imagine from the view of spectators watching the first interstellar jump, the ship compresses and its crew slow to a crawl as they rapidly approach c before, suddenly, the ship jumps away from Sol and the crew begin to speed up and perhaps move at an accelerated pace all while their ship seems to move backwards at faster-than-light speeds. Though I'm pretty sure the actual crew don't notice any of this, or perhaps they see the outside universe the same way they are seen (again, assuming I recall my book-readings correctly).
Would this be a correct layman's interpretation of the data so far?
It doesn't look like anything, because it doesn't (and can't) exist.Cy83r wrote:Okay, so faster-than-light equals negative time, got it. But what does negative time look like?
And my question is, "so what?"Razor One wrote:With causality broken, effects can precede causes and causes can happen without effect.
Pick up a can of coke. It's empty now because you were having been going to drink it. But you haven't yet. Yet it's empty.
Look up in the sky. The sun turned into a red giant. Why? It exhausted its nuclear fuel long before it was supposed to because you threw causality out of the window. The effect of it expanding into a red giant has preceeded the cause of it running low on nuclear fuel.
Rockets suddenly explode on the pad before they've been fueled up. The cemetary where you lay flowers by your dear grandfathers grave suddenly has a headstone with your name on it.
Future alien civilisations invade Earth because humans from the future engaged in a brutal war of genocide against them on the basis that humanity broke free of their tyrannical rule and engaged in a brutal war of genocide to avenge their tyranny.
A world without causality makes no sense, not any kind of sense that we can make head or tail of. Effects can happen without causes. Causes can happen with no effect.
I doubt you could perceive anything beyond the scope of our 3d space-time. An FTL ship would probably just disappear.Okay, so faster-than-light equals negative time, got it. But what does negative time look like?
If you base your assumption (like most media did) that because the Mayan Calender end that it also mean the end of the world, rest assured, it wont happen because Mayan calendar, like all their believe, is based on the circle. On other word, there is no end to the Mayan calender.NOMAD wrote:hehe, I really hope Dec 21, 2012 doesn't happen. Looking forward to seeing what is coming next.
Well i wouldn't worry about that. it been show (maybe as a joke but still) that it would be mathematically impossible for ANYTHING heavier than air, to fly and also that anything going faster than 55 mph would be vaporized. So if i know something is that science is good at convincing people of what they cannot do. It like the Politician, It (the science) say convincing lies, until proven otherwise, afterward they just apologizes for their error but everyone already forgot what it was all about and keep voting for them.Cy83r wrote:So, in conclusion: dammit, let me think we at least have a chance at it until the hard numbers get back in the next several decades! Psychic powers have been dead and buried for almost the last two decades, don't take away my FTL drives just yet, we aren't even on Mars.
Sound is a wave function of a vibrating cloud of particles, vacuum doesn't transmit sound because there's not enough stuff to bump the energy through. The something to push past in regards to the light-speed barrier is your increasing mass, rather than the stacking air pressure in front of a hypersonic aircraft, it takes mass to move mass; though, interesting thought, the mass of your unused propellant increases with the ship, should a mass-holding object reach lightspeed and thus become infinitely massive, the propellant also becomes... infinite? I got something wrong there. The idea behind FTL drives harnessing tachyons is that the particle holds negative/imaginary mass, potentially negating the mass of the ship or inverting it entirely, allowing the vessel to quaintly ignore the light barrier, but catching them, assuming they exist at all, is the problem; wormholes ignore the entire problem all together by ripping spacetime apart and creating a new shorter path to the destination, but the logistics of exploiting existing wormholes, creating new ones, and aiming them are about as feasible as creating an interstellar empire using slowboats, again, this assumes wormholes exist in the first place.discord wrote:razor: E=mc2(yeah i know, can't be arsed figuring out how to do a squared 2) tells us that objects in motion have more energy, therefor a increase in energy without a increase in speed should be a increase in mass...these are still pretty small value changes though.
and something that always bothered me with the 'no rest frame' is the speed of light....what exactly is it relative to? and that always makes me think of the speed of sound, there seems to be several similarities here, as you approach the 'barrier' you need more and more energy to overcome.....something in the way...the faster you go, the more wave front you are building up in front of you, creating drag hindering further acceleration...
so, my theory here is that the speed of light is merely the speed of sound in a near vacuum. now chew on that you damn physicists.
Alright I believe I understand the premise. But keep in mind that this effects conventional space FTL. If you have nonconventional space FTL you shouldn't have any causality issues either.Razor One wrote:Causality wall of text
Well I don't have any survival kits for sale but I might get one, just in case: since you never know what will happen in life).Karst45 wrote:If you base your assumption (like most media did) that because the Mayan Calender end that it also mean the end of the world, rest assured, it wont happen because Mayan calendar, like all their believe, is based on the circle. On other word, there is no end to the Mayan calender.NOMAD wrote:hehe, I really hope Dec 21, 2012 doesn't happen. Looking forward to seeing what is coming next.
All that is know is that the Mayan did observe something important in the past, important enough for them to Mark it on the stone. They did that because, in their believe that everything is cycling, they tough that this particular even would come again.
So something important will happen, the end of the world? probably not, though lots of people will panic because of the misinformation that most media are using to instigate fear (you fight the terrorist but your actually Terrorizing your own population. can you feel the irony?)
So that mostly it, dont fear the end of the world, but you still can sell those survival kit / bunker some sucker will buy them anyway
Define Mass.Cy83r wrote:No, my point is that you're assuming: a) there is not a way around the lightspeed barrier by ignoring mass... somehow (tachyons with their imaginary mass, maybe, if they exist and if they can be caught without negating their needed properties);
Time is another dimension in our generally four dimensional and arbritrarily 11 dimensional universe. You can't have negative length. You can only have length that increases in a different direction.and, more importantly, b) that negative time implies time travel.
Quantum tunnelling only occurs on the quantum scale. Macroscale classical objects cannot be quantum.
Also, I think I may have figured a way around an FTL object meeting and STL object. Since the traveler's energy is so high there might be a very good chance that the FTL object proceeds to quantum tunnel through whatever it hits. The only problem is that this implies that tachyons and similar particles won't be very easy to catch, if at all; let alone detect.
I think you've misunderstood.
Edit: an object higher up a gravity well has more mass than one lower down? That makes some sense, though that makes it seem like weight and mass are tied together in some... perhaps geometric function? Objects in motion having more energy and thus mass has been something of a modern-day no-brainer for a while though.
Source on broken causality still making sense from a fourth and fifth dimensional perspective? I'd like to read that.
Lastly, we always have spacetime shortcuts like wormholes to investigate, which, as far as I'm still aware, don't violate relativity (which is still incomplete, by the way) or causality (which still makes sense from a fourth or fifth dimensional perspective even when broken, or perhaps causality looks insane from those higher viewpoints). Hell, broken causality made an excellent game about time travel warfare called Achron. Not to mention that I have a couple RPG plots that abuse causality. So, perhaps the ideas of relativity and causality are what's broken, they don't [completely] accurately portray the truth of how the universe works in its entirety, it just explains things on our mundane level.
That doesn't break causality.P.S. And another thing, and this is far out so not very important to answer, don't we sort of violate causality just by trying to predict others' actions and respond accordingly? The cause of a preemptive action is technically the probability of a future event occurring, even if based on current observations, you are still making a hypothetical leap into a future where this possibility exists and then acting on it.