Nah, wasn't thinking of unmanned ships. I assume the Loroi have at least some conventional sensors so those would stand out like a sore thumb to those even if they were invisible to farseers. Mainly sticking to planetary combat applications.
I'm thinking of stuff that is smaller and cheaper, easier to mass produce and spam all across the battlefields or in sabotage/recon applications. Compared to the cost of replacing personnel losses, anything autonomous or unguided would sound more effective versus Loroi infantry than being silly and having some sort of honorable face to face fight...if you get the choice.
And if shielding is more of a "push" to disperse/deflect matter...that just changes the scope of saturation needed then for effect.
But a question closer to the thread topic: We know what the comparative tech levels the Loroi, Humans, and others are at....but how effective are they at actually using that tech? My understanding is the Loroi had some loaned to them; but don't really fully utilize it....
Arioch wrote:Fireblade can punch holes in armored vehicles (or anything else) by heating a location on the surface until the structure begins to fail, then applying force to the heated section. This does take several seconds, so a quicker and more effective way to disable an armored vehicle is usually to attack the crew directly. Signature detection can be used to locate the crewmembers, even if they are not visible.
I assume this has very limited range? Otherwise even controlling orbit would do the Umiak no good. Fireblade et all would simply punch holes in their reactors and blow their ships up. If it does have a limit, then it may be vaulnerable to counterfire. If Fireblade were to quckly take out several tanks, a competent tactical-network would be able to guess at her general location, and then MLRS the entire area.
TL9 technology? <chuckle> Oh there are so many fun things I could do with that... But realistically, one ofthe few areas humans almost certainly lead the Loroi will likely be weaponized cuteness.
Well I was busy training youngsters for Afghan mission. It was quite a challenge to put something to their heads and still I say they are not ready...but in few weeks I will be home and finally will have 24h Internet access. Now I'm trying to keep up with Deep Strike (IC) RP.
My self I'm wondering how flexible loroi personal armor works against kinetic weaponry. We can presume that umiak use laser\blaster\plasma weapons at this point so Loroi armor would be design to stop focused heat in case of: laser->concentrated heat, blaster->high velocity subatomic particles, plasma->high-energy ionized gas[heat, kinetic].
Human firearms with proper bullets would be in many cases better than lasers or even plasma weapons...
anticarrot wrote:I assume this has very limited range? Otherwise even controlling orbit would do the Umiak no good. Fireblade et all would simply punch holes in their reactors and blow their ships up.
According to the GURPS book there is no limit to PK range, however you have to be able to accurately target it which reduces effective range considerably.
anticarrot wrote:I assume this has very limited range? Otherwise even controlling orbit would do the Umiak no good. Fireblade et all would simply punch holes in their reactors and blow their ships up.
According to the GURPS book there is no limit to PK range, however you have to be able to accurately target it which reduces effective range considerably.
Limited to Visual range... You could hit target at longer range if you were looking though binocular but that would require some poking and adjustment. (some what quoted from Insider/arioch)
So i think that you would get a false impression of distance looking through a telescope and would be more likely to miss a lots of the time. and you dont have the visual feedback you would have on a tank (like Dust being "blow away")
That's some pretty sinister stuff there bunny. I imagine most of that stuff would look harmless to a civilian that didn't know any better. Especially if it's gotten a layer of soil and/or dirt on it.
"Optical computers, genetic catalogs, nanorepair modules--forget all of that. It's when you see a megaton of steel suspended over your head by a thread the thickness of a human hair that you really find God in technology."
Beliskner wrote:My self I'm wondering how flexible loroi personal armor works against kinetic weaponry. We can presume that umiak use laser\blaster\plasma weapons at this point so Loroi armor would be design to stop focused heat in case of: laser->concentrated heat, blaster->high velocity subatomic particles, plasma->high-energy ionized gas[heat, kinetic].
Human firearms with proper bullets would be in many cases better than lasers or even plasma weapons...
I wouldn't presume that they use energy based hand weapons, but aside from that...if bullets are superior, why wouldn't they already be using them? If they switched to using energy weapons, it was because they offer some significant advantage, and human slug throwers would most likely suffer the same relative disadvantages that Loroi/Umiak ones did. And if gaining an edge was as simple as resurrecting some old weapon designs...odds seem against humanity's big contribution to the war being solid bullets. We might use some weapons that are somewhat heavier than the ones used by the Loroi, but if they badly needed someone to carry big guns for them, there's the Barsam.
As for the armor, it also needs to give protection against shrapnel and many other causes of injury. It's flexible to normal motion, but might provide a great deal more resistance to an impact. Non-newtonian materials that passively react to impacts by stiffening are being researched for armors now, and systems that actively detect incoming rounds and react before impact may be plausible. This is also shipboard uniform...they're not running around a contested city and getting shot at.
ARGH, I hated these types of mines when I first heard of them at my school, had a children in war week back is HS. Nasty toys, and build on purpose for kids to pick up, them BOOM, and their either loss a limib or get blinded.
I am a wander, going from place to place without a home I am a NOMAD
Remember when we were all playing Mechwarrior and we came upon enemy foot soldiers? I'm hoping ground combat against Humanity will be something along that line.
There are no aliens in Battletech. Don't make me go get Far Country to remind you why that is the case.
But yeah, Humans trying to take on Loroi or Umiak sounds a lot like the IS versus the Clans. If the IS had only one planet per Great House.
Alex better not fuck this up. Though our being so vastly inferior to both sides in every facet combined with our relative isolation does make me wonder what exactly either side would expect of humanity in this war. We can't build very many ships, we're too far away, we don't have any tech that they don't, we aren't biologically superior in any way (and our one "advantage" in that regard is just as likely to get us all killed horribly), both sides are far more experienced and aren't really all that susceptible to war weariness, and the other races of the Union seem to have pretty much every niche in their society filled. It doesn't sound like we can contribute something even remotely useful to one side, and the other would just eat us all as soon as they won the war.
Maybe if we're really, really quiet, they'll just ignore us?
"Optical computers, genetic catalogs, nanorepair modules--forget all of that. It's when you see a megaton of steel suspended over your head by a thread the thickness of a human hair that you really find God in technology."
Well, we can't keep quiet, considering we just frikkin' threw ourselves in a middle of a fight just for the sake of exploration.
Although the thing that bugs me is how humanity, society-wise, has had both Umiak and Loroi traits. (although this might be because they both are explained compared to humans). Also, I denote neither side might be very innovative...
Maybe the fact that we're so backwater nobody really noticed us has done wonders in the "make up solutions as they go" department, and our wild card status and improvisation might be the key. (And even if isn't, improvisation is the only solution our dear human protagonist has!)
The main value that we have to either side in the mid-term is our location, we have backdoor access to both sides and we can provide a re-supply point as well, obviously high-tech things like replacement parts for weapons or reactors we couldn't give them, but things like food, water and lower-tech replacement parts like air filters and things of that nature.
Additionally we have several worlds with lots of free space and a labor force ready for use, if they want to build warehouses or even manufacturing facilities for the components that we can't provide for them all they need to do is provide the specs for the buildings and ship the equipment we can't build over and by the time it gets here we'll have the facilities ready for them to install.
In the short-term we are useless (save for Alex who will doubtless be pivotal in the coming battles), in the mid-term we are tolerably useful, in the long-term we are likely to be extremely valuable (Transcendence victory anyone?)
@Mjolnir Maybe I didn't express my self clearly... We don't know if Loroi\Umiak or even Soia invented gunpowder.... Of course they all know mass drivers but rails or gauss weapons would be big, bulky and heavy but mostly they would have limited rof. While gunpowder weapons have great rof, good stopping power and acceptable range. Also they can be silenced, difficult to detect, while laser\plasma shot colorful bolt...
The most important drawback are ammunition, spare parts, maintenance compared to laser weapons...
About armor. I understand that but stopping a bullet and dispersion energy are not the same. Armor can stop bullet but if it will stop it's energy from breaking your ribs thats are two different things...
Actually the main issue about guns is wether they'd be able to fire at all or not. In our atmosphere it certainly works, but can you say the same about the ever-changing conditions of space warfare?
Also, the accuracy and control you can have over slugs is rather limited when compared to missiles (they can home and lock on) and laser beams (unless you're a near biiiig massive object, they travel on straight lines).
Here's also food for thought: Have you ever considered when Humanity will invent the particle cannon?
SpoilerShow
We actually invented it waaay back in 1858. Cathodic Beams. They are the first known electron accelerators. Known uses of said accelerators: Vaccuum Valves, Old style-particle beam TVs. X-ray generators. Radiotherapy. Accelerator research.
Atomic wrote:Actually the main issue about guns is wether they'd be able to fire at all or not. In our atmosphere it certainly works, but can you say the same about the ever-changing conditions of space warfare?
Charges usually have their oxidant "on board", so it´s no matter of atmosphere, rather of rate of pressure.
Atomic wrote:Also, the accuracy and control you can have over slugs is rather limited when compared to missiles (they can home and lock on) and laser beams (unless you're a near biiiig massive object, they travel on straight lines).
Yes, but they´re cheap and cause a lot damage on succesful impact.
Beliskner wrote:@Mjolnir Maybe I didn't express my self clearly... We don't know if Loroi\Umiak or even Soia invented gunpowder.... Of course they all know mass drivers but rails or gauss weapons would be big, bulky and heavy but mostly they would have limited rof. While gunpowder weapons have great rof, good stopping power and acceptable range. Also they can be silenced, difficult to detect, while laser\plasma shot colorful bolt...
They might not have developed black powder, but it seems extremely improbable that they never developed a useful chemical propellant.
Beliskner wrote:The most important drawback are ammunition, spare parts, maintenance compared to laser weapons...
Maintenance is likely to be a considerable advantage of projectile weapons. Lasers have a lot of delicate optics involved that have to be kept aligned, unscratched, and very clean, plus components that have to generate and handle very high pulses of power. Spare parts are simpler to make and easier to handle.
Beliskner wrote:About armor. I understand that but stopping a bullet and dispersion energy are not the same. Armor can stop bullet but if it will stop it's energy from breaking your ribs thats are two different things...
Again, the same goes for shrapnel. Armor's not going to lose that just because they use lasers instead of bullets.
Atomic wrote:Actually the main issue about guns is wether they'd be able to fire at all or not. In our atmosphere it certainly works, but can you say the same about the ever-changing conditions of space warfare?
Charges usually have their oxidant "on board", so it´s no matter of atmosphere, rather of rate of pressure.
Atomic wrote:Also, the accuracy and control you can have over slugs is rather limited when compared to missiles (they can home and lock on) and laser beams (unless you're a near biiiig massive object, they travel on straight lines).
Yes, but they´re cheap and cause a lot damage on succesful impact.
Well, the pressure conditions you mention are caused by the atmosphere. Also the temperature conditions. We all know the reaction happens at 298-300 K, but how about with temperatures as little as 3K, which is the standard vacuum temperature? or as high as 650K, which is the surface temperature of Mercury?
