Page 88

[fredgiblet]

The Aphid Admiral may be bluffing.

Aphid Admiral, I like that, I like that very much.

From Tempo's earlier comments, the Boss Bug has seemingly smashed two other Loroi task-forces in this system already... but how much ammo did he burn up doing it?

Given the nature of the mission and the number of torps dropped by the vanguard I'm going to guess they have resupply on hand. Though on the other hand it looks like the ship the camera is focusing on is short of torps. Either way if the Loroi want to hold their position the lack of torps doesn't really matter.

- Humanity may not be so psi-immune after all.
I haven't seen any discussion of this point yet: Kikitik-27's assertion that the 'far-sensor jammer' is an Umiak innovation casts doubt upon the readership's previous assumption that Alex's apparent imperviousness to Loroi mental powers is a human trait. What if it was the 'damping field', rather than human physiology, that helped obscure Bellarmine to the far-seers? And what if it's the effects of Umiak 'jamming' rendering Alex invisible to the far-seers even when he's standing on Tempest's bridge? There goes one of humanity's supposed 'advantages'.
We might have to find another ace up our sleeve....

It wasn't just the Tempest's Farseer looking though, there's also the Farseers that are part of the main line, I find it unlikely that the 'Bell wouldn't have been intercepted by a Loroi scout before reaching Na'am if they were visible.

[GeoModder]

- Humanity may not be so psi-immune after all.
I haven't seen any discussion of this point yet: Kikitik-27's assertion that the 'far-sensor jammer' is an Umiak innovation casts doubt upon the readership's previous assumption that Alex's apparent imperviousness to Loroi mental powers is a human trait. What if it was the 'damping field', rather than human physiology, that helped obscure Bellarmine to the far-seers? And what if it's the effects of Umiak 'jamming' rendering Alex invisible to the far-seers even when he's standing on Tempest's bridge? There goes one of humanity's supposed 'advantages'.
We might have to find another ace up our sleeve....

It can still go both ways. Its one thing to have a effective "psi dampener" active, but such a device must have weird properties if a human mind is still shielded during physical probing (the infirmary scene).

[Trantor]

Given the nature of the mission and the number of torps dropped by the vanguard I'm going to guess they have resupply on hand. Though on the other hand it looks like the ship the camera is focusing on is short of torps. Either way if the Loroi want to hold their position the lack of torps doesn't really matter.

Now you just mention it: Maybe it´s the Umiak that want to hold position and keep the Loroi from sniffing around. They jam Loroi Farseers, maybe they hide this device in the area.

[Rosen_Ritter_1]

I don't think Alex's lotai has anything to do with the Umiak. If the Umiak REALLY had a wide area psychic jammer, it wouldn't just conceal humans and Umiak. It'd conceal those Barsam couriers, and even the Loroi crew from eachother. Such wide arrea effect jamming would be VERY noticeable, and be spread out over a very wide area if it concealed the Bell from Loroi farseers as it was jumping in several systems ago.

Whatever effect the jammer has, it's localized to the Umiak fleet.

[Ktrain]

Now you just mention it: Maybe it´s the Umiak that want to hold position and keep the Loroi from sniffing around. They jam Loroi Farseers, maybe they hide this device in the area.

Maybe the Umiak misplaced it and the device is so well disguised that they can't find it either

[Rem Ruin]

Whatever effect the jammer has, it's localized to the Umiak fleet.

Quite possibly to the individual Umaik ships themselves.

[Nathan_]

The farseer would also be able to spot planet earth were humans not shielded in all likelyhood.

[fredgiblet]

No. Earth is 200+ light-years away, we don't have a definite range for Farseers, but it's less than that.

[osmium]

I actually figure that is probably within range. If they can tell precisely how many ships should be in a given region of empty space I figure it works more like actual vision than some sort of RPG sight distance thing (you have darkvision 100ft or whatever, like whatever does the darkvision doesn't let you pick up "dark-photons" that come in from further than 100ft). For multiple occupied planets I would expect there to be some error, but that they would have some map sort of like one we might get from telescopes of the galaxy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way. Now not knowing exactly where we were it doesn't actually have to change the loroi response to our planets being in a dark spot or not as they still don't know where our planets are. It certainly could have some long term consequences depending on the outcome of the war, but for now I don't this it's really cogent as clearly regardless of what the precise circumstance is, humaniti is a new face on the block. (the cases I can think of are 1) farsight can detect occupied systems throughout the galaxy, or farsight can detect throughout much of the system, but clearly with reduced accuracy at distance AND humans are invisible enough on average to have avoided detection. 2) they have been detected but were so far out and seemingly not space active so as to avoid exploration / categorization or 3) farsight is just too inaccurate at that distance that it doesn't actually matter if humanity is truly invisible or just alex and the crew of the bellarmine... (although truthfully statistically the likelihood of randomly selecting a crew that large (all scout corp vessels currently en route) without there being some sort of unexpected bias that makes lotai selection be associated with some other selection criteria is unlikely).

-O

[Rosen_Ritter_1]

Considering that the Loroi are dubious about how extensive Umiak space is, it's unlikely that Far seeing has infinite range. They could just scope out the domains of inhabited space on the Umiak side of no mans land.

[Trantor]

...
or 3) farsight is just too inaccurate at that distance that it doesn't actually matter if humanity is truly invisible or just alex and the crew of the bellarmine...

That´s most likely. As Farseeing is instant, it is related to hyperspace. FTL-travel depends on gravity wells. With too many wells in the way, the image is blurred. A bit like gravity lensing maybe.

But i bet humans are generally invisible.

[fredgiblet]

Range of Farseer sense varies. "Average" Farseers are generally able to sense some distance into the Umiak lines, although most don't have the "resolution" to detect ships distinctly from planetary populations, so for the most part they can only detect ships when they have entered the lifeless Steppes, or occasionally when they are moving through largely uninhabited "transit" systems. Combined with the scouting ability of the fast-attack groups, and the intelligence work of the Mizol, the Loroi try to keep close tabs on Umiak fleet movements.

[Grayhome]

Come to think of it do we have a reliably star map of the combating factions?

[fredgiblet]

Not that I'm aware of, the best we've got that I've seen is the one on page 59.

[Trantor]

Not that I'm aware of, the best we've got that I've seen is the one on page 59.

And it can be deciphered with the help of the Loroi-alphabet. The encircled bright yellow spot slightly lower to the left is Azimol.

[Nathan_]

No. Earth is 200+ light-years away, we don't have a definite range for Farseers, but it's less than that.

If it is directly out of their range, then they probably canvassed the area around Earth with scouts at whatever farseer range is and concluded nothing was out here.

[NOMAD]

hey, their also the Java bases map in the extra's section, its has some current start references in case anyone wanted to compare our current position.

I would do it, but I don't know where to get a galactic map ( their alot of sci-fi ones, but I can't find a good enough one to use here)

[Some Useless Geek]

By the way, there's no question here that the Umiak could wipe the floor with the 51st even using guns only, right? Should they be missile-dry they still have a considerable firepower advantage?

If so, we can stop talking about the Umiak not wanting to engage for tactical reasons.

[Karst45]

- Humanity may not be so psi-immune after all.
I haven't seen any discussion of this point yet: Kikitik-27's assertion that the 'far-sensor jammer' is an Umiak innovation casts doubt upon the readership's previous assumption that Alex's apparent imperviousness to Loroi mental powers is a human trait. What if it was the 'damping field', rather than human physiology, that helped obscure Bellarmine to the far-seers? And what if it's the effects of Umiak 'jamming' rendering Alex invisible to the far-seers even when he's standing on Tempest's bridge? There goes one of humanity's supposed 'advantages'.
We might have to find another ace up our sleeve....

highly improblable since they dont seem to be Able to penetrate their (human) mind. If their ability (loroi) were damped by this "field" they couldnt communicate with each other as touching is more strong than mere sansai. So if something is strong enough to disturb touch telepathic it is strong enough to stop sansai.

It wasn't just the Tempest's Farseer looking though, there's also the Farseers that are part of the main line, I find it unlikely that the 'Bell wouldn't have been intercepted by a Loroi scout before reaching Na'am if they were visible.

Well think of it the other way. You back a your base. you see a single small unit moving toward the front line were one of your best strike group is already heading. Why would you deploy another fleet to actually stop that ship?

Far-seer aren't telepathic Radio (to quote Arioch) If the front line is not aware that the 51 have a "radar" issues they don't need to send anything to intercept that single ship. after all the 51 surely have detected it and will deal with that thing the best way possible.

What i continue to believe is that the Historian are actually playing both side. They went to ally with the loroi and given them tech to fight off the umiak. at the same time they were studying a solution to prevent the loroi far sensing ability.

So Mr 27 may have said the true, but it Historian tech that prevent that.

If it is directly out of their range, then they probably canvassed the area around Earth with scouts at whatever farseer range is and concluded nothing was out here.

dont forget that Terran sector is more on the umiak side than the loroi one. maybe their scout didnt go far enough to try to detect human colony.

By the way, there's no question here that the Umiak could wipe the floor with the 51st even using guns only, right? Should they be missile-dry they still have a considerable firepower advantage?

If so, we can stop talking about the Umiak not wanting to engage for tactical reasons.

yes indeed they could but by doing so they would loose more ship than if they actually had a torpedo barrage. Remember, Umiak use torpedo to keep the loroi busy while they close in weapon range.

[Grayhome]

I find myself in agreement with Death by Chains as there isn't enough hard evidence to support total immunity, just a high level of resistance. My argument for this goes along the lines of being invisible isn't the same as being invisible + intangible. If humans were immune to psi Alex wouldn't have been driven unconscious by Fireblade's physical contact.

... or maybe that was the only way his mind could keep out the telepathic invader it perceived as a threat, by rendering him catatonic. we just don't have the know how as to the inner working of psi and how it interacts with Terrans. Doubtless our understanding will deepen as the story progresses, along with the drama!